Shonda Rhimes Opens Up About Power, Failure, and Saying Yes
Television’s most influential showrunner, Shona Rhimes sat down with Alex Cooper for a raw, career-spanning conversation that covered everything from Grey’s Anatomy’s 450th episode to why she’s now obsessed with golf.
The Connecticut Escape: Finding Normalcy After LA
Rhimes revealed she moved to Connecticut during the pandemic and has no plans to return to Los Angeles full-time. After nearly 30 years in LA, she described the relief of living somewhere “nobody’s in the business.”
I went to Costco and I got a Costco card and I cried in the parking lot. Because it’s like the first time I was ever able to do anything that felt like that normal.
—Shona Rhimes
She explained that in LA, everyone wanted something from her — not just because she was famous, but because she could hire actors, executives, and directors. In Connecticut, people just want to get to the eggs.
On Iconic Characters and Storylines: Christina Yang Remains Her Favorite
When asked which character she’d switch lives with for a day, Rhimes didn’t hesitate: Christina Yang. And when Cooper asked about Burke vs. Owen, Rhimes said neither — Christina ended up alone for a reason.
The beauty of Burke is he knew that Christina couldn’t fully be herself with him, so he let her go.
—Shona Rhimes
The Plane Crash Episode Still Haunts Her
Cooper admitted she recently rewatched the plane crash episode and was horrified, calling it “a freaking snuff film.” Rhimes agreed, saying she watches it back now and can’t believe people survived watching it.
My whole job is to be keeper of the story, not keeper of the actors, not keeper of the show, not keeper of the fans. Like my whole job is to just be true to the story.
—Shona Rhimes
She Still Believes She Can Perform Surgery
Years of writing medical dramas had an unexpected side effect: Rhimes became convinced she could solve people’s medical emergencies.
I still believe I can do an appendectomy beginning to end. Still believe that right now.
—Shona Rhimes
She admitted she became “a terrible hypochondriac” and would tell pregnant women in her writer’s room, “If you need a C-section, I got you.”
The Scandal That Almost Wasn’t: Olivia Pope’s Abortion
Rhimes revealed the network pushed back “big time” on Olivia Pope having an abortion — but she’d already fought this battle before. When Christina Yang’s pregnancy was first planned, it was supposed to end in abortion, but Rhimes got scared after network concerns and changed it to an ectopic pregnancy instead.
By the time she wrote Olivia’s abortion, she knew what she was doing.
This feels so right for this character. It’s not even a question for me.
—Shona Rhimes
The episode aired as a Christmas episode, and Rhimes fought to keep the scene intact by pointing out they’d already shown the same procedure shot-for-shot with a soldier two seasons earlier.
It’s not the scene, it’s the people having the sex. It’s not the scene, it’s the people.
—Shona Rhimes
Power, Leadership, and “Being the Bitch”
Rhimes shared hard-won wisdom about women in leadership, including her famous line from her documentary: “Be the bitch.”
I don’t want anybody to think I’m being a bitch if I say, let’s all just be the bitch. Because the reality of it is everybody’s going to have their opinion of you anyway.
—Shona Rhimes
She explained that women are raised to hate themselves and make themselves smaller so others will accept them, which makes it uncomfortable to watch another woman be completely confident.
Power is not power if you don’t know you have it. I’ve known lots of women who I’m like, you have so much power, but you believe that you’re powerless.
—Shona Rhimes
The Year of Yes: 10 Years Later
Rhimes’ 2014 memoir “Year of Yes” documented her decision to spend a year saying yes to everything that scared her. At the time, she was wildly shy — to the point of full anxiety attacks and unable to speak in public.
I had this incredible success of these television shows. My characters were living these amazing, full, rich, exciting lives and I was not. I was at home living in my imagination.
—Shona Rhimes
The year transformed her, but it also meant shedding people who couldn’t handle her change.
Unhappy people do not like it when a fellow unhappy person becomes happy. When you begin to fundamentally change who you are, people who are comfortable with you in the role that you were in have a really hard time with it.
—Shona Rhimes
She said breaking up with friends was “excruciating,” but necessary.
‘On Marriage, Independence, and Changing Her Mind
For years, Rhimes was clear: she wasn’t interested in marriage. She valued independence and had almost “killed herself” trying to pretend she wanted to get engaged.
I felt so good. I felt so relieved. I felt like this huge weight had been lifted from me.
—Shona Rhimes
But now? She’s open.
I’m no longer saying like I never want to get married. Like I’m open. I’m very comfortable with who I am now. I’m not worried that who I am is going to be taken away from me.
—Shona Rhimes
She also addressed the double standard: people were more excited about her engagement than her Peabody Award, shows, and children combined.
They’re like, ‘You have a man who wants to marry you.’ I was like, ‘You guys, no.’ It felt really threatening to my whole identity.
—Shona Rhimes
Her Daughters Are Not Impressed
Rhimes’ three daughters remain thoroughly unimpressed by her career. Her 23-year-old has never watched any of her shows. Her 13-year-old started Grey’s Anatomy, got to Christina’s ectopic pregnancy, and quit in fury.
My youngest daughter and her little seventh grade friends have made a pact that none of them are ever going to watch Grey’s Anatomy because nobody wants to know what Beckett’s mother has to say about life, love, or anything else.
—Shona Rhimes
Rhimes called it “insulting” but also “fantastic” — proof her children’s self-esteem is intact.
The Work-Life Balance Lie
Rhimes dismantled the “you can have it all” narrative with characteristic bluntness.
It’s such bullshit. We’re so conditioned to feel like I’m supposed to be fully present at work all the time and then I’m supposed to be like the most amazing mom all the time. It does not work that way.
—Shona Rhimes
Her solution? Accept that you can’t do it all at once.
It’s not that you can’t do it all. It’s that you can’t do it all at once. So maybe sometimes this is going to be over here down a little bit more and this is going to be more up, but I’m still doing it all in a way that makes me feel less guilty.
—Shona Rhimes
She even said embracing the idea that she’s “failing at something else” made her feel better.
What’s Next: A New Story
After years of producing shows created by others, Rhimes is in a “percolation phase” — gathering ideas for three different shows and figuring out which one will emerge first.
I’m really excited about whatever’s next because I am in this percolation phase where I’m trying to figure out what my next story is. It’s been a while since I’ve told like a brand new, fresh story.
—Shona Rhimes
The Unexpected Hobby: Golf
In perhaps the most surprising revelation, Rhimes said she’s now “obsessed with golf” — a hobby she never had in 20 years of showrunning.
I love things that I actually cannot think of other things while I’m doing it. It’s really interesting to be somebody who’s like really good at a thing and then do something that you’re terrible at.
—Shona Rhimes
She also loves occupying spaces “that necessarily weren’t made for us.”
A country club is not a space that was like made for me. Nobody was thinking like this black lady’s going to be at a country club. So I kind of love this idea of like occupying these spaces and like we’re sort of taking them over.
—Shona Rhimes
Final Wisdom: Men Brag, Women Hide
Rhimes closed with a observation that resonated throughout the conversation.
Men brag and women hide. Women cannot take compliments. Someone will say to you like, ‘You’re the most powerful podcaster out there right now,’ and you don’t want to go like, ‘Thank you.’ You think to yourself, ‘Oh well, you know,’ and you try to make it okay for other people because you’re afraid that if you like yourself too much, people are going to think ill of you.
—Shona Rhimes
Her advice? Stop.
Who does she think she is? Well, who do you think you are? You should think you’re the most powerful woman in podcasting right now. That’s not an insult. That’s not a problem. That’s not something to be ashamed of. You’re like, ‘Yeah, I accomplished that.’ Like, that’s okay.
—Shona Rhimes
This recap is based on Shonda Rhimes’s appearance on the Call Her Daddy podcast. For the full episode, click on the YouTube link at the top or listen wherever you get your podcasts.
